I'm So Pissed. Part Deux.
So. I think I told you that I love politics. I may have even told you I have a degree in political science. But I haven't mentioned much politics here, unless you want to count sexual politics. And I don't.
I usually just get it off my chest by reading Landru's blog or posting at another popular board. But I don't want to argue today. I just want to say what I want to say. Logical or not. Popular or not.
I'm pissed about the state of politics in America. I'm pissed about the morons who are running this country. I'm pissed at so many of my fellow Americans for being so lazy, so stupid, so delusional, or so complacent that we have a bunch of liars, cheats, greedheads, and religious fanatics turning this country into something no founding father would recognize, let alone endorse.
The Iraqi Constitution has passed. At pretty much the exact same time, American military personnel deaths have now reached the 2000 mark. I suppose I should celebrate the fact of there even being an Iraqi constitution. I have, however, no great hope that this document and the "government" it creates will create any sort of peace and stability in Iraq. The Kurds, the Sunnis, and the Shi'ites have slaughtered and fought each other for centuries. This document does nothing to address that and, because it does not, I believe it is doomed for failure. And that is before I take into account the fact that nothing in these peoples' histories indicates that they have the necessary conditions in place to make democracy successful there. If you have studied any of the major democracies of the world, you will see some common factors in each that are conspicuously lacking in Iraq. What factors, you say? Well, just off the top of my head...a stable and rational economic system with multiple players, a relatively high degree of literacy among the population, and a long history of evolving and increasingly complex political systems that lead to eventually to the highly complex system of democracy. What I see in Iraq is what many saw in Russia when it went from its czarist system to the utopia of communism. A country and people who are being thrust from one of the most basic of political systems, a feudal system, into one of the most complex of political systems. In Russia's case, that was communism or socialism. In Iraq's case, it's democracy. That's kind of like expecting a one-celled amoeba to skip all the steps in between and evolve immediately into a homo sapien. Innately unworkable.
And this is the horse to which George W and his cronies have harnessed our troops and the poor Iraqi people and ridden hell bent for leather to war. Over 2000 young American men and women and hundreds of thousand of Iraqis of all ages are dead now. And for what? Nothing right now. No real democracy in Iraq, no cheap oil for us, no WMD, no Iraqi ties to Osama and his gang of thugs, no peace, no security, no infrastructure, and a loss of women's rights.
This is outrageous. I'm pissed. And I'm going to stay pissed a good long time. And I say that if you aren't pissed, you are not paying attention.
posted by Geggy @ 12:44 PM
13 comments
13 Comments:
Right on baby...I am pissed about it all too. I can't have a discussion with my mother about politics any longer because, for some reason I can't fathom, she supports our dunder head President.
I don't support the President for much these days, but on Iraq I do. I hear a lot of people saying what you are saying. At every juncture it is always something. Oh sure, that looks good, but it's not because (blah blah blah). Always blah blah blah. It seems that people want Iraq to fail and supply four hundred thousand reasons for it not to, but meanwhile it continues to make progress. I'm pissed too, but for different reasons. I want Iraq to succeed, and while Bush and company made a lot of mistakes on the road to making it happen, they did indeed plant a seed that can potentially have disastrous impact on terrorism and tyrannical regimes. But I know you don't think any of that is even remotely possible, that we have created terrorists and made the world more unsafe and haven't done a lick of good. Until Democrats stop serving up that party drivel, they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of unseating Republicans that are dismantelling this country. It's time for the divisiveness on this subject to end, which is the most important issue we face today. Bush isn't all wrong, but he is mostly. But where it counts he has a stranglehold. Move on to broken borders, failing environment, cronyism, and corporate control of government.
Actually, Scott, I could not care less whether Iraq fails or succeeds on a grand scale. Iraq is not important to me in any way shape or form. Because, until W fucked the whole place up, it had no effect on me, my country, or my fellow countrymen and never was going to. I knew this going in and said it in no uncertain terms. It is not and was not party drivel. If you have any kind of memory of the start of the war, Democrats supported the big lie, too, and practically fell all over themselves trying to look more bloodthirsty than Rummy, Cheney, and Wolfie all put together.
Keep deluding yourself that the world is safer and the "war on terrorism" is being won. Keep drinking the Kool Aid. And keep thinking that, despite all evidence to the contrary, your view on this war is still the majority view.
I've lived through this kind of crap before. I've seen cheap thugs like this administration before. I know how these things tend to play out. Lies, lies, damn lies always blow up in the liars' faces.
"If you have any kind of memory of the start of the war..."
"Keep deluding yourself..."
"Keep drinking the Kool Aid."
I would be glad debate the merits of our presence in Iraq, but I won't be goaded by personal insults. I left a comment here because you have a political science degree, and expected a substitive counter argument that would make me think.
Heh! It's just like that other place in here *grin*
Whoa...Geggy meet Scott, Scott meet Geggy!
I have friends on opposite ends of the political spectrum. I adore you both and while I am not an extreme liberal, I am upset about the current administration.
Ok, now lets play nice...sorda...ok staying out of this.
Well, Scott, I guess I'd have to say that I made my argument in my original post. I stated right from the top that this was going to be about what *I* felt. The fact that I have a degree in political science does not mean I cannot have opinions or that I have to over-analyze or that I cannot get angry over the state of my nation.
I see it all in very, very simple terms. The reason we have found ourselves in this mess is that too many people HAVE been drinking the Kool Aid. Too many people have short memories. Too many people get angry about things about which they can do nothing (culture wars, anyone?) and not about the things that actually affect people.
The things you point to as things I should be focusing on (environment, cronyism, etc.), while symptomatic of the rot of this administration, are peripheral issues in my mind to the fact that these people have sent young Americans to die for greed and lies. Iraq shows no signs of being better off for our interference. So, Saddam is gone. I still don't see how anyone in Iraq is really better off. Are human rights any better? Are women and children better off in any measurable way? Are Iraqis sharing in the bounty their oil should have provided? Is there even an oil industry there now? What about their economy, their infrastructure? And despite any type of evidence to tie Saddam to any terrorists or current WMD programs, the Shrub still uses the war on terror to keep things there status quo, despite the fact that there was never anything to tie Iraq to it until he got us into this, yes I'll say it, quagmire.
I have seen this kind of corruption, lack of respect for our military, and condescending attitude from leaders before. I was too young to do anything about it then. I will not stay silent about it now.
If I decide to start a scholarly blog, we can talk about political theory there. This one is about Geggy the person, not Geggy the academic.
Dont know Scott...but I'm guessing he must be from the other place since he knows about the Kool Aid. I drink the hard liquor instead.
*smooch* for geggy
When you say human rights aren't any better, I assume you are speaking of Abu Ghraib? So you are asserting, like Ted Kennedy, that their prison system is simply under new management?
The new constitutional vote happened without much interference from the insurgents, and was mostly secured by Iraqi forces. Is that not a good sign? Women are voting? Is that not also a good and measurable sign?
Do Americans share in the bounty of any natural resource that America produces, beyond getting it for a cheaper price? I realize there is a permanent fund in Alaska, but since when is that a measure of success for the people of Iraq, to share in the oil revenues. And beyond that, there are propositions out there that could result in just such a program. If that program succeeds in sharing oil revenue with all of Iraq, would that make you think that things are starting to go well?
Their economy has been taking off and is attracting foreign investment. For a war ravaged country that was raped by Sadaam, that's an encouraging sign. I think anyway. Oil production is up to 2.4 million barrels a day.
The rebuilding of infrastructure is moving along at a fast clip, new electricity and water treatment plants, universities, schools, law enforcement stations, Iraqi military bases, and many more types are constantly being built and brought online. Of course our media doesn't tell you that, but it's out there if you look for it.
Sadaam slaughtered his own people, and skimmed oil for food money while his people starved, while ordinary people gladly blamed the US for their woes. I don't know if he had WMDs or not, but he may well have esconsed whatever he had going in Syria and nobody would be the wiser.
What we really divide on is that you don't believe a working democracy in Iraq is a) useful and b) possible. It has already created pressure in Libya, Egypt and Lebanon, and when it is running and the people are clearly prospering, the pressure will be ten fold on other nations. I understand you don't think this will happen, but when it does, you will probably still not see what impact it has had on your life, because you and people you know may not be dead or suffering from some form of attack. At least now we have set up something in the heart of the middle east that will not only dissuade terrorism, but will fight it for their very own survival.
My memory serves me fine. Of course I remember all that rot surrounding the initial invasion of Iraq, and that the Democrats and Republicans came together and agreed on how to proceed, but it quickly turned to "Bush is a liar" when he acted on the evidence of his own intelligence services and those of Great Britain and Russia. America sat around and let middle east regimes and terrorists dictate our direction. We took the bombing of our embassy in Africa, the abduction of hostages in 75, the murder of our soldiers in Beirut and others without so much as harsh words in response. Our enemies have become emboldened by our flacidity. So finally one man had the balls to stand up against our own atrophy and that of the corrupt UN security council and did what had to be done.
It has taken some time and sacrifice, but in the end, lives have been saved. And just maybe there will someday be peace in the Middle East. Before there was no chance at all.
Okay, since you like the Kool Aid so much.
First, of course I count Abu Graib as an abuse of human rights of the most egregious kinds. Mainly because WE, the home of the free and the brave, were the perpetrators. However, I am more concerned here with the loss of rights of the women of Iraq. Believe it or not, women had the right to vote under Saddam. Not only that, but they could attend school or college, work outside the home, and wear whatever they wanted. One of the first actions of the wonderful government we have installed there was to end mandatory education for women. Do you really believe that no form of Sharia or Islamic law is in the works? Take a look at who is running the show there, especially behind the scenes. When the mullahs get done, those women will be praying for Saddam because at least he was a champion of women's rights compared to the Taliban v2.0 we're about to see in Iraq.
As for the oil. One of the big selling points the Shrub used to sell his war was that it would cost us nothing since we would have all that oil to pay for our costs and any rebuilding costs. And that average Iraqis would benefit from all that oil money coming into their country. Well, it's not happening. Please refer:
www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraq.html
As for infrastructure, I'm not even going to begin to address what your right-wing Aussie blogger has to say about it. I would prefer to take the word of the students I have serving there and some friends who are there as part of the monolithic media, who obviously are conspiring to make Georgie Porgie look bad. An hour or two of electricity a day and no running water are not what I'd call creature comforts. Nor do I consider bridges blown up, rebuilt the next, only to be blown up the next a sign of a healthy infrastructure. And I can just hear you now...it's the insurgents fault, right? Well, those insurgents weren't there until we were. And the sound of car bombs going off? That's coming from the Iraqi police stations and military bases.
As for this creating peace in the Middle East? Egypt was already pretty much an ally (why do you think most Egyptians hate Mubarak?). Nothing new there. Has Syria come into the fold? Nope, don't see them. And the biggest enchilada of all there, Iran? Spitting in our faces every day, all day. And I still haven't noticed many madrassahs being shut down in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. This war has made us, our friends, and the whole world much less safe. In fact, it has given aid and comfort to our enemies, from al Qaida to North Korea.
As for Shrub being some kind of martial god for attacking a practically defenseless banana republic megalomaniac using trumped up evidence and deliberate lies, I'm not impressed. That's bully boy behavior, not heroic in any way. If W had any balls at all, he'd have shown them back when he had the opportunity instead of partying his way through the Vietnam War and then having the temerity to attack the patriotism and war records of men who are a thousand times better and braver than he.
And, as for your memory, I must assume it only goes back 5 years or so. As I said earlier, I watched the same sort of thing happen many years ago when I was too young to fully understand or protest when I did. The Bush administration has managed, in just five years and one presidency, to do what it took one administration full of hubris and a second full of petty thieves and crooks, to do in ten years. I guess maybe he can be proud of that.
And lastly, yes, Saddam is a bad, bad man. So are the House of Saud, Kim Jong Il, the Chinese Communists, and dozens of others all over the world. So when are we taking the rest of them on?
I found this quote about that status of women in Iraq under Sadaam:
The movement for women in Iraq has greatly suffered due to sanctions and anti-women legislation imposed by Hussein's regime since the mid-90s. Under Islamic law, the punishment for a women who commits adultery is death. But women in Iraq are also being murdered for fighting with their husbands, having a relationship with a man outside marriage, and for being raped, because this brings shame on the family. Women have been stoned to death in public, disabled, disfigured and/or kidnapped. Women have even been kept hostage in their own homes.
According to the Iraq Foundation Web site "The rights of women in Iraq are going down the drain, along with everything else ... In 1998, Saddam ordered all women secretaries working in government agencies be dismissed. Now there are new laws barring women from work altogether."
Hmmm. Makes you yearn for the good old days, doesn't it?
The Iraq Foundation? Will have to look that up, but let's just say I have some healthy scepticism regarding this. Is it backed up by UN or Amnesty International?
Like I said, Saddam was a bad, bad man. But certainly not the worst one out there. Women's rights take more egregious hits every second in Saudi Arabia. When are we going after them?
Actually I don't know. I googled it and found the quote. By the way, your big reply was more in line of what I was looking for. I had no idea that Saddam allowed women to vote. I just assumed he was bad all around, but it does sound like he started slipping into subjugation.
As to when, I don't know. But I agree that something has to be done. But we can't do too much can we? And would anyone agree that any of the other regimes you mention should be militarily invaded? I think the world has to come together and do something about it all.
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